LENA KATINA

What was "Beliy Plashik" video shot for?

We wanted to tell about the things we're concerned with. I guess violence is a topic that touches everybody. We wanted to show that abortions are also violence, murder of the unborn children. I've got many friends who've experienced an abortion... We've had this idea of execution for quite a while. And when Yulka got pregnant we thought that this enhances an effect. They say that it never happened like that, that pregnant women were never shot. Well, are you so sure? When it's war time, nobody cares who's pregnant and who's got a little child... And our video is a portrait of violence pushed into absurdity. In this video I'm not myself and Yulia's not Yulia. We don't play ourselves. We always did before, and here's an invented story in which we play characters. I'm a kind of an executor and Yulia is a kind of woman who's executed.

And what if you, not Yulia, were waiting a baby? Would you agree to play Yulia's role?

It's a complicated question. I don't know... Can't tell you.

What could possibly stop you?

I could get frightened.

Of what? Bad luck?

I don't really believe in superstitions. We all are under God... I never had an abortion. Probably I wouldn't make such a step... I don't know, I would have felt bad myself, I guess. Well, I'm just not such person as Yulka. She's tough, decisive, though she's extremely emotional. If I were on her place, I could have agreed... Because it's all for an idea, for the art... I'm about to say some "high" words now...

Well, why not articulate them?

You know, [for example] right now in man-woman relationships the word "love" means something else. People keep telling each other hundreds of times, "I love you, I love you." And then they break up just like that, "Oh, it wasn't really love." My loved one didn't tell me about love for a long time. And once I told him, "You know, I see you have feelings for me". And he answered, "The word "love" looses its value when you say it every day. The same as "Good morning!" and "I like you".... " And about sincerity... Very often you come across people who tell you one thing openly and completely different thing behind your back. And when you learn it, you get surprised, "Oh, my God! What is this?! " Actually, it's a question of trust to people, I guess.

And do you trust people?

I'm a very open and trusting person. I don't know whether it's a good thing or bad in this "wolfish" world - it has nothing to do with Volkova... Maybe it's more like "a minus", but I can do nothing about myself, because this is the way I am. I've had issues with being open very often. People would tell me, "Lena, you can't be so open, it will turn out not good afterwards." I agree, but I always make the same mistake again... Though I'm not sure whether it's a mistake. Life teaches us something anyway. It's hard to break yourself. This transformation may end with mental problems.

So you refuse to see the bad side in a person?

Right, one should look for good things in any person first of all. I know some search for bad ones: they surely have some problems themselves. And I prefer to look for good things, and people from my environment treat me the same in return. But what I've learned is that if you do something good, you must not expect the same in response. You actually must not wait for anything. You've got an emotional need to do something good? Just do it! It all returns as a boomerang. The question is only - when, what for and why?

[Lena starts speaking informally with a journalist, which is not translatable into Russian - blog.tatu.ru]

So you agree with a "as a man sows, so shall he reap" theory?

I think I do.

And do you personally experience violence? I take metro every day, for example...

Yeah, my mom takes metro too. I also walk in the streets with no make up and I go shopping. Violence is everywhere. If a person feels good, he or she walks and smiles. And I notice it, by the way when some person walks and there's a smile on the face - it's nice to watch. And there are people, who're kind of frozen. Especially in winter. They're all closed, wrapped, faces are bleak...

Lena, and do you take metro yourself?

Recently we had to take my sister's broken phone from the service. My car was also in service center and my mom said, "Let's go all together". It was somewhere around "Sokol" Metro station. I asked, "How do we go?" Mom answered, "We'll take a bus and then metro... " I love metro very much, there's such especial air there... I mean, how do they oil railways? With black oil fuel? When I was a little girl, I would tell my mom, "Let's take a can, fill it with this air from the metro and spread it around the apartment... "

Listen, I'd like to get back to your video. Let's take you for example - you've never experienced an abortion, you didn't face such a choice. So why does this problem bother you so much?

Because it's bad to kill, and we're talking about your own flesh and blood. Not every woman does it just because she doesn't want a baby. Maybe she doesn't have money to even feed the baby. She might not have any means of subsistence. There're different situations. Or her boyfriend after learning about her pregnancy told her, "Get the hell away from me"... Imagine that some homeless girl or a girl from an orphanage got pregnant. And? Nobody supports her. She's alone. She has no education. It can happen like this! So what is to be done? Say, this girl gives birth to a baby - and how does she live after? And where? How does she buy food, clothes, pampers? It's crazy money after all.

But she's pregnant already. And so what is to be done?

I'm also asking: So, what is to be done? There're two ways: either she goes and aborts, or she prays to God. People say, "Give birth and God will take care for you". But there're people who don't believe it. But if you do, you begin to run around, you try to change something, you search other ways, but you're not choosing a simple way - as some people say, "to go and clean out". And besides, abortion is a dangerous thing - you may no longer have kids in your life after it. But you know...it's ok for me to say sitting here in a café, when I'm dressed and have everything, "I'll never agree with abortion". And what about others?

When Yulia Volkova got pregnant for the first time and told you about it, weren't you afraid of some "creative pause" in your career?

Well, that's what happened. But children are the most important thing in the world. Professional life stops one day, and your child stays with you for the whole life. I would never send somebody to an abortion, I would do my best to talk the person out of it. But often a guy is also against having a baby.

Is it worth it to stay with such a man?

No, I think. I give him up for lost immediately.

Not leaving him a second chance?

Time heals everything. If your heart gave you a hint once that you don't need this person... You can't go twice in the same water. You should go on with your life, new people will come anyway. If you're destined to be alone, you will anyway. If not - it means that your kind of person is on the way.

Do you believe in God?

My great-grandma was very religious. Mom and grandma are believers, but they go to church from time to time.

And you?

Not often. I remember my great-grandma started to take me to church when I turned 3 years old. She took a little chair for me and I sat on it when I got tired. Once they even took me to a choir - while they sang I was sitting on somebody's laps. But I was a fidget, so I was sent back to grandma fast. And now what happens? A young girl comes to church and she might need support so that she doesn't turn and go back, but some people would start saying - look, she came wearing pants. I once spoke with a priest about it. I don't remember his answer in details, just one phrase got stuck in my memory: That it's an old generation, and they think they did a heroic act - they saved the faith when churches were ruined, and now they're sure they've got certain rights

Actually your image doesn't correlate with our talk.

Honestly? I think, 40% of the popularity we owe this image. I guess, there were also "Gosti Iz Budushego" duo with their song "Kiss, Don't Kiss". But they had this theme only in one song. And we did it our way - and wow! Though we've never actually said that we were lesbians. Yes, me and Yulia, we kissed in the lips. But I kiss in the lips with all my friends and even with classmates. We also must give proper respect to Ivan Shapovalov: He shot the video that can be explained from both sides. He balanced on the edge although it was a dangerous blade. And at the same time he created some hint. Yeah, I really love Yulka, and Yulka loves me. We're friends for 12 years already. Twelve years! It does matter. We can kiss, but it doesn't mean that at night we... This is on one side and on the other... Yes, I went to church after that and I confessed.

Why?

I had some ambiguous feeling. On one side, it was like we did nothing wrong. Ok, we kissed, so what?

And on the other?

I think that if a person is originally inclined to these things, he or she will go there anyway. For us there are no people with non-conventional sexual preferences. The basic idea is they're also human beings. And sometimes they're much better, more tolerant and more sincere. They're ready to come to help in hour of need faster then... Well, then again, people are different. I don't judge them; I don't think they must be banned. I feel pity for them, because, for example, they just get beaten up in the streets. Why in the world it is so? What right do you have to judge these people? Up there it will be decided who's right and who's wrong. And what right do you have? Look at yourself!

How did you shoot the provocative episodes if you're not lesbians in fact?

We just giggled, frankly speaking. Just giggled. Vanya often yelled at us with foam at the mouth, "Aaaaah, girls, come on, stop it!" I'll tell you a secret. In the first video "All the Things She Said", in the episode with our kiss, there's a moment when we kiss and then we get apart. We couldn't film this moment of getting apart for a long time because we had smiles from ear to ear every time we kissed. So Ivan found a way out: he just had this scene backwards, so when we get apart - it's actually the shot where we turn to each other.

So it turns out you just cheated your audience for several years...

We all get more mature, we grow up. I didn't have such ideas, but I know that many people tried something not traditional in their lives, and then they turned back traditional ones. In teen age, when your personality is being formed, girls and boys start finding out who they really are. And we just showed it: Even if you're not with majority, first of all you're a person. And if you chose a traditional orientation, it's your own business; everyone has his own head on the shoulders, his own feelings and needs. All our videos have meta-meaning, one must "read between the lines". We show real life, and we don't force our audience to look through pink glasses at this life. Many artists show in their videos that life is wonderful, that it's all beautiful, but then a viewer comes down to earth and gets frightened. On one side we also want to give hope, on the other - to show the reality.

Why did you participate in Gay Pride?

I think that people have no rights to dictate other people what to do. Recently I had a rough talk about this with my close friend. Talk about gays, that they're the same as we are. Why should they always be beaten up, humiliated, insulted and told they're out of health and they're actually nasty and horrible and that it should be forbidden to contact them? It's a pure discrimination. Why can't they just go and declare their rights? In the gay-capital San-Francisco it's called "love-parade". Everybody comes there. The local gay-community just makes it a holiday for all people. And my fried answered, "You know, what if I don't want my kid to see it. I don't want him to become gay." And I told him, "All right then, close his eyes! HHe'll learn about it and you won't be able to change something if he makes a decision." It all depends on persons' disposition.

You also had an action "Fuck War!" What war did you mean?

We were in the US at that time. Actually it was Ivan's idea. The US have brought troops into Iraq back then... You know, all our actions are reactions on life, that why I love all our ideas so much. We created this protest - we showed up on stage wearing T-shirts saying "Fuck War". Well, Americans had no idea what our t-shirt said, and it all is being broadcasted on TV. Then they found it out and didn't let us do it anymore. So we performed in other t-shirts saying, "Censored".

You were much concerned about that war?

I'm concerned about any war. So many people die! And who's sent to wars? Young boys who had no time to enjoy life yet. I'm not really interested in politics, and don't understand these games in politics. All I know is - war is violence! Games of big guys who just sit and point destinations with their fingers. But it's all being done by other people. I have nothing to say about war except that it's terrible.

You wanted to shoot the audience during the World Music Award ceremony performance...

Yes, we wanted to appear with real guns and to fire blank at the ceiling. We wanted to collect jewelry from the audience for charity... such compulsory charity. And then Ivan said, "That's it They didn't let us do it - we won't perform." It was our decision-making process back then.

But why shoot at the audience? What's the point?

To scare.

But that's also violence after all.

It is. That's why it hasn't fucking inspired me.

But can your video "Beliy Plashik" turn out to be a double edged sword? People are different after all. Some will say: "Yes, abortion is violence", and some just may enjoy killing pregnant women.

No way! Who in the world can have such an idea? It gave me the creeps when I watched the video. I was scared. It was terrible to watch. Just ter-rib-ble! And if I separate myself from the fatct that I'm a participant and put myself in the place of a viewer, it makes me sick. Nobody will think anything opposite. People will see only the things we wanted to show.

Alexandr Nevzorov (Russian TV journalist - blog.tatu.ru) claimed you were parasites exploiting the sin. What could you answer him now?

I don't remember now what we answered at that time. But I do remember the show... I would say that he's not a deep thinking person. And I would advice him to read Dostoevsky.

And Yulia Volkova would tell him "Go to...."?

Definitely. Without a minute hesitation. Even without a second, I would say. This is Volkova.

We're going to leave a café. A woman from a next table stands up, approaches us and tells me, "Ask her one thing! Does she believe in God?" Lena hesitates a bit, as it appears to me,

whether she should answer or not, then she says firmly, "Yes, I do."

YULIA VOLKOVA

Does your character from the video "Beliy Plashik" have a legend? Maybe she was a Soviet secret-service agent in Nazi Germany?

I don't know... It's a made-up story. That's how tales, movies and so on are invented. There was a story and we followed it. There's no reason for Lena to shoot me, especially when I'm pregnant. We're against violence, murders, including abortions; we're against cruelty in general. That's what we wanted to show people. Not to tell - because one might not get words. But to show.

Where do you personally run across violence?

It's around us, and you witness it more often and often, it doesn't matter if you're an artist or a lawyer, a teacher or a director. And celebrities are also human beings. They differ from the others only because they are shown on TV. But we can fight violence. For example, our second album is called "Ludi-Invalidi". We meant not physical, but moral defects. New albums' name is "Waste Management". Here we go again, "waste" - we can say, it's all negative emotions, feelings and things. We wanted not only to shock people, we also tried to make them think.

You stayed in some dangerous reservoir during the shooting...

I don't know how dangerous it was. It was huge. You know what it was? A factory, which collects all sewage from Los Angeles and the area around. Do you remember a corridor I'm walking to an execution? It's very long, I don't even know how many kilometers there are... Ten, I guess... It runs underground. And the problem was the following: these pipes that run underground can deliver all shit they get from LA {into this reservoir} and in this case of emergency we had to make it to the surface before it all happens. Taps were lapped there somehow especially for the shooting, so that they don't let out all this shit automatically. Sure it was scary. And it stank badly. But we don't have it in a different way, we can't shoot videos on beautiful streets.

Do you like to amaze? I already asked Lena: once Nevzorov has told...

Who is Nevzorov?

A TV journalist. So he said that you are parasites exploiting a sin.

Put it simply to me.

Well... you shoot "explicit" videos to draw attention.

Nothing we create is specially-invented and far-fetched, we touch the subjects that exist in this world; they surround us, but people unfortunately ignore them. They live and think, "It doesn't matter, who cares". And once you write something on a T-shirt, they suddenly begin to think. And frankly speaking we show obvious things known to everyone, and there's nothing special in them.

What did you feel after watching the video?

It gave me creeps.

Why did you choose to sing a song with the words of your fan, but not of some famous author?

Each artist should realize there're certain people he or she exists for. Our band has its fans, who believe in us, and their attention is very precious to us. They're also people and they also can write lyrics for a song. This girl succeeded - the song became a hit. So why is she worse than others? Writers and composers, as all the rest of creative people actually, keep the main thing in their soul. One can study to be an actor for 20 years, but not to become an actor. Your talent should burn inside you.

Yulia, do you have a star fever?

They say I do. I didn't notice it myself. Maybe I'll have it some day. God forbid! Because first of all you should stay a human being. Right?

Why did you leave your original image?

When they're getting mature, young people try to figure who they are, to find themselves, to make somebody have a crush on them or to fall in love themselves. They experiment and step by step they become adults. Me and Lena, we never had such relationship. We don't propagandize it now. We had our experiments already. I've got a great husband, I've overgrown this image and I'm happy with my family now.

Weren't you afraid that maternity destroys your career? It was ruining your image...

I'm never afraid of anything, I do everything for myself. Or rather I always thought about myself and nobody else, when I was younger. But I've met my first real love now. We had it all planned, and the baby as well. Now I'm 23. It's not 18, you know. It's all different now. Before I met my husband I lived only for myself and all the things I did, I did for myself... And I don't have any regrets.

Mariya Ahmedova / Russkiy Reporter